Interesting Fighting Styles

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Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:59 am

This is a thread where I analyze and break down interesting fighting styles utilized by lightsaber duelists in Star Wars.

Feel free in suggesting anyone you would like me to make a post for, however I will generally not do posts for people who focus only on one form or are masters of all seven, as those are far less interesting to break down.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:59 am

One character with an interesting and effective fighting style is Obi-wan Kenobi.

In ROTS, Obi-wan is a master of Soresu, and an expert in Ataru. His mastery of Soresu gives him a near impenetrable defensive technique, capable of holding off Grievous' immense fighting speed as well as Vader's superhuman strength, both of these fighters demonstrating great ferocity in combat. His skills in Ataru on the other hand work as a great supplement to his mastery of Soresu, as it provides him with something most Soresu masters lack, a viable offense. As this was Obi-wan's primary style prior to Qui-gon's death, and he used it against Maul, even managing to damage the Sith Lord's weapon at one point, I'd say his offensive capabilities granted by Ataru are not to be underestimated. Ataru also grants him skill in mobility and acrobatics, which is important for a fight, and when paired with the "immovable rock" defense of Ataru, it truly grants him control over his mobility. This is further enhanced by his skill in Sokan, which is a Jedi combat principle about using one's environment to gain a tactical advantage. Finally, Obi-wan also possessed a fair deal of skill in Tae-Jitsu, a hand to hand martial art, which granted Kenobi a fair amount of skill in hand to hand combat. Kenobi was also versed in Jar'kai, which was no doubt a result of Form IV's dual blade training regimens, which provides him with greater versatility in combat. What I view as the pinnacle example of Obi-wan's combative technique was his duel against Darth Maul and Savage Opress on Florrum. Obi-wan used Jar'kai to better allow him to clash blades with two opponents at once, he used Soresu to defend against these two very skilled offensive duelists and stand his ground, he used his skills in Ataru to keep them off edge with a fast paced aggressive offense as well as providing him with the mobility to dodge their blades, he used his skills in Tae-Jitsu to keep them off edge and uncoordinated with physical strikes, and he used his understanding of Sokan to take advantage of the tight space to keep them from coordinating their attacks together as well as bouncing off the wall and using it for reinforcement in a bladelock. This clever and desperate culmination of all of Kenobi's abilities allowed him to hold off two duelists when one of them alone would've been a tough fight for him.

As such I judge ROTS Obi-wan's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:59 am

Something that often comes into question is ANH Kenobi's level of skill and abilities. Although his dueling capabilities have atrophied to an extent, he still remains a very capable duelist. His application of Soresu remains rather unchanged, as despite his atrophy in skill he remains "the master of Soresu." His defense is still strong enough to hold off Vader for a little while, which is a great feat. What I think would change the most in his dueling skillset would be his offense. In his physical prime Obi-wan's offense consisted of Ataru, and the martial art of Tae-Jitsu. As per Ataru, Obi-wan appears to lack the physical capability for Ataru's elaborate acrobatics to be practical in combat. Thus he appears to utilize a more grounded version of Ataru that doesn't incorporate the styles trademark acrobatics, but still holds true to Ataru's fast paced attack sequences. As per Tae-Jitsu, it's core principles may provide Kenobi with certain things such as balance and physical control, any of its moves are pretty much rendered obsolete due to Kenobi's physical condition. I do notice some possible incorporation of Form V in Kenobi's technique as well, given his quick and immediate counter attacks against Vader as well as his deft footwork. This is something that plays off of Kenobi's Soresu mastery quite nicely considering that Soresu's main function is to defend and wait for an opening, and such reactive bladework associated with Form V would help one exploit such openings. This is a point supported by TFU: USE when you fight Kenobi. If you try and best him through bladework he will capably block your attacks, and if you slip up for a moment, he will unleash a flurry of attacks on you. So basically, I think Obi-wan applies the defensive applications of Form III, the counter-responses and footwork of Form V, the fast paced attack sequences of Form IV, and the physical disciplines of Tae-Jitsu.

I feel like ANH Kenobi's style does a good job covering up his physical weaknesses while taking what he does have and making it count as well as supplementing his forms and techniques with eachother. For these reasons, despite his atrophy in skill, I still judge ANH Kenobi's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:00 am

Well now... time to do one for Darth Vader. Darth Vader's primary form, even before gaining the suit, was Djem So, which he had taken to the level of mastery. After sustaining the injuries on mustafar and donning his trademark suit his fighting style changed dramatically. He initially began to fight with a brutish method, employing a clumsy application of Djem So that incorporated elements of Ataru and Soresu, but was really no more than a brutish onslaught.

Eventually Vader learned to fight with his armor, completely retooling his fighting style to fit his strengths and weaknesses, and incorporating elements from the other six forms around the core of his fighting style, Djem So. Djem So works perfectly as the core of Vader's fighting technique. Its strength oriented offense allows him to use his cybernetically augmented strength as well as the weight of his armor for devastating power blows, it's grounded nature suits Vader's relative lack of mobility in combat, the emphasis on footwork is supported by Vader's bulky weight providing him with a stable center of balance, and it's emphasis on parrying and immediate counter response suiting Vader's need to both defend the weaknesses of his armor and press all of his advantages to bear against his enemies.

Djem So's dueling centric focus also serves as a good basis to incorporate elements of other forms into. The first forms Vader borrowed elements from were Soresu and Ataru. Vader's usage of Soresu was known to involve keeping his elbows to his chest and using his wrists for the precision necessary to ward off blows targeting his face and chest, the most vulnerable parts of his suit, ensuring that if a blow did hit, it could likely be tanked by the rest of his armor. His application of Ataru into his fighting style was likely at first a feeble attempt to regain some of his old agility, and after learning to fight with his armor he actually somewhat succeeds in this goal. He doesn't regain an extraordinary level of agility, but he does gain enough agility to be competent in this regard. Like Qui-gon and ANH Obi-wan, he appears to utilize a more grounded version of Ataru that focuses more around elaborate movement rather than elaborate acrobatics.

The next styles Vader was known to incorporate into his fighting technique were Makashi and Juyo. Makashi's place in Vader's technique led to more control over his technique, which in turn was instrumental in the transformation from a clumsy brutish method to a more advanced and precise method. The elegance and precision granted to him by Makashi was a nice compliment to his brute force. This allowed him to strike with great strength, but at the same time, precisely hit his target, which ranges anywhere from off-balancing or disarming someone with a single stroke to cleaving them in half. Juyo was also a significant boon in overcoming his weaknesses. The passion that Juyo draws from would allow Vader to draw from the dark side to overcome some of his physical limitations. Juyo also provided the, at first slow and clumsy Vader, with a fast paced unpredictable offensive.

With Djem So as the core of Vader's technique and Makashi, Soresu, Ataru, and Juyo being supplementary fighting techniques, Shii Cho and Niman are what holds it all together. Shi Cho was instrumental in the retooling of Vader's style as he basically had to work from the ground up. The simplicity of Shii Cho allowed Vader to use it as a basis for more advanced techniques later on, effectively building off of it to incorporate other styles into his technique. Niman on the other hand was what allowed Vader to hold the elements of all of these styles together as well as allowing him to easily transition between the forms in his fighting style.

What makes Vader different from other wielders of all Seven forms is that rather than mastering them all individually, he primarily focused on one style and supplemented his skill in that style with elements from other styles, effectively building around the form he has mastered, with elements from the other forms, and the way he does this works perfectly to cover up his weaknesses and take full advantage of his strengths. For these reasons, I judge Darth Vader's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:11 am

Now time for my Darth Bane one...
Darth Bane is known primarily as a master of Djem So, however he also has Soresu and Juyo underneath his belt as well as an understanding of the other four forms to the point where he knows how to capably defend against and counter them.

With Djem So, Bane takes full advantage of his extraordinary physical attributes. Standing at a towering two meter height with strength enough to rip through durasteel, Djem So takes full advantage of the power he can work up from his strength and leverage. Djem So's focus on blocking and immediate counter-response also ensured that Bane was able to bring his full offensive capabilities to bear against his opponents. He was known to use his brute force to not only directly wear his opponents down, but he was also known to redirect his opponents blades at an angle that exposed them to a fatal strike or physical attack. Bane also doesn't fall victim to one of the more common weaknesses of Djem So practitioners, which would be a lack of mobility. Bane has shown himself to be a quick and agile fighter despite his hulking size, which has saved his ass on numerous occasions.

Another Form that factored into Bane's fighting style was Juyo. Bane used Juyo's unpredictability as an excellent compliment to his overwhelming application of Djem So, attacking from unpredictable and creative angles to make his already physically dominating offense even harder to deal with. Bane was known to reap the full benefits of his dark emotions when applying Juyo while at the same time attaining mastery and control over his emotions, not allowing his emotions to lead to an error in tactical judgement. In fact Bane's application of Juyo also involved probing his enemies defenses as much as attacking them with a controlled fury.

In the hands of a master, Djem So and Juyo supplement each other very well. Djem So's reliance on physical strength and force based augmentation is reinforced by the heightened anger, passion, and emotion provided by tapping into Juyo, and the chaotic unpredictable attack sequences of Juyo can be used by Bane to great effect after unbalancing an opponent or creating an opening with Djem So. With the overpowering and counterresponsive nature of Djem So, as well as the chaotic, unpredictable, emotionally charged nature of Juyo, which Bane has perfected to the point of "mastery of control, not the loss of it," Bane basically has a perfect offensive technique going for him.

Soresu didn't figure into his offense, however his usage of Soresu in conjunction with his Djem So was quite interesting. Despite Bane's focus on offense, his mastery of Soresu ensured that he wasn't helpless fighting on the defensive and in fact allowed him to turn the tide of the fight back into his favor so he could resume his offensive. His defense was strong and nearly impenetrable, and his knowledge of how to defend against the other forms certainly came into handy here. Whenever placed on the defensive Bane would repel his enemy's strikes while waiting for an opening to assert himself into, effectively rebuilding his offense, and given the relentless nature of his fighting style this reassertion isn't something he'd be likely to lose. His mastery of Soresu was such that he could block the drops in a fierce rainstorm for ten minutes without a single drop hitting him.

Though Bane wasn't confirmed as being familiar with any hand to hand martial arts, he was quite skilled at chaining physical attacks into his offense, taking full advantage of the openings he creates with his Djem So technique.

Another thing that plays into Bane's lightsaber mastery quite nicely is his lightsaber itself. The nature of his curved hilt provided him with even more unfamiliar angles to attack from, bolstering his application of Juyo, while the way it fits into his hand provided him more power with some of his blows, fitting into his application of Djem So. The nature of its unfamiliar angles almost took off the arm of an implied Makashi master, a style that prizes itself on precision, in a single blow.

Bane was also known to use the force to not only increase his physical capabilities and senses through conventional methods, but he also took advantage of a power called inertia, which allowed him to alter his inertia and momentum, which has numerous applications that bolster his style. This allows him to increase the force behind his blows increasing his effectiveness with Djem So, as well as allowing him to change the direction of his motions and attacks more freely, adding to the unpredictable nature of Juyo, and increasing the effectiveness with which he can chain in his physical attacks.

One final element in Bane's fighting style is his tactical ingenuity. Not only does he favor unpredictability in his moves and maneuvers, but also in his overall tactics. He was known to probe for openings in defensive fighters, as well as taking advantage of his environment to seize a tactical edge, and was known to change his tactics every time his opponents get used to his current tactical approach, disturbing the rhythm of their engagement and effectively seizing control of the fight itself. He was also known to be highly adaptable to such tactic changes himself, quickly adapting and continuing to press his advantage.

So ultimately, Bane is a very physically overwhelming fighter on the offensive, taking full advantage of the benefits provided to him by Djem So, his raw physical capabilities, and his emotions. He's also a very unpredictable fighter, utilizing an unorthodox weapon, ever changing unpredictable tactics, the chaotic unpredictable nature of Juyo, and his ability to shift his inertia for physical attacks, or sudden shifts in angle and direction of attack. Within this offense however he also maintained a high level of control. All of this works really well on the offensive as it is increasingly difficult to defend against such powerful blows while dealing with such levels of unpredictability at the same time. This is further compounded by the psychological impact of defending against such a style would be frightening, especially since Bane knows how to use psychological ploys in fights. Such an assault is also much more deadly when you consider the amount of control Bane has over it. With his offense as good as this, his defensive capabilities are optimally engineered to restore his offense in a way that plays of the counter-responsive nature of Djem So as well as the nature of his control of inertia.

So to recap the summary that ran a little long, Bane's fighting style plays perfectly off of his physical attributes, armament, and bodily control, as well as being completely dominating and unpredictable with a defense that serves to re-orchestrate said offense. For these reasons I judge Darth Bane's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:12 am

Darth Maul is also a quite interesting fighter as he focuses primarily on lightsaber technique over force abilities and dun moch...

The primary component of Darth Maul's lightsaber technique is Juyo, which is what provides Maul with his offensive technique as a duelist. Juyo is known for its unpredictability, which plays off of the unfamiliar nature of Maul's double bladed lightsaber quite nicely. Juyo is also known for it's fast paced and aggressive offensive, which also plays well off of Maul's double bladed lightsaber given that he can strike with two blades more frequently than he could with one. Maul however was not dependent on his double bladed lightsaber and could still function with a single blade. When applying Juyo with a single bladed lightsaber Maul compensated for his double bladed lightsaber's greater striking speed and his opponents' unfamiliarity with it, with the greater maneuverability provided by a single bladed lightsaber.

Maul supplements his offensive dueling capabilities with the aggressive martial art known as Teras Kasi. Teras Kasi is perhaps the most effective martial art for a Sith to compliment their dueling skills with considering that it was developed and geared for fighting Jedi, exactly the kind of opponent a Sith Lord like Maul would face in a lightsaber duel. Maul's mastery of Teras Kasi is to the extent that his master considers his body as lethal as his lightsaber blade, and it is very prevalent in his fighting style. Given how busy Maul's hands are in combat he more frequently utilizes kicks in combat to the extent where he's thrown at least 6-7 kicks in half of his on-screen fights, once to the extent where it was actually lethal to a Jedi, and another time actually managing to land a blow on Sidious. Maul's intense and brutal physical training at the hands of Sidious was instrumental in specializing his body for such attacks, though after losing his legs, the new cybernetic legs he receives makes his frequent habit of throwing kicks in a lightsaber duel all the more effective.

With Maul's mastery of Juyo and Teras Kasi he is a very offensive fighter, and as such he'd be considerably less comfortable on the defensive. Nevertheless Maul does maintain a capable defense in his dueling repertoire. It is likely that much of Maul's defensive technique is derived from his skill in Niman. Niman's balanced jack-of-all-trades nature provides Maul with no weaknesses for his opponents to exploit against him. Niman as a jack-of-all-trades style also provided Maul with some insight into the other forms, allowing him to more capably respond to them in combat. His defensive technique was also well served by his double bladed lightsaber, given the defensive coverage provided by two blades. Unlike his offensive technique, I do not believe he ever truly compensated for the loss of his double bladed weapon in this regard. Given how undeveloped his defensive technique was in comparison to his offensive technique, Maul would also utilize aggressive moves and maneuvers derived from Juyo and Teras Kasi in his defensive technique to keep his opponents at a safe distance while also keeping his opponents from closing in by creating distance with the acrobatics of Teras Kasi. As such Maul's defensive technique is mainly comprised of not presenting a weakness, while maintaining a reasonable distance with aggressive techniques and acrobatics.

Then we get to Maul's mastery of Jar'kai which impacts his fighting style in a few different ways, pretty much all of which are related to armament. First of all, he likely got to Jar'kai through the stepping stone of Niman, which he then used to attain mastery of the double bladed lightsaber. The second and more obvious impact is his skill in dual wielding. When wielding two lightsabers, he further increases his effectiveness with Juyo, as it provides him with the striking speed of two blades without the movement hindrance of the double bladed lightsaber, also increasing his options in combat, and thus his unpredictability as well.

Darth Maul was essentially Sidious's weapon and his skillset reflects that. He is specialized for offense, maintaining combat expertise in several weapons through Jar'kai, a fast paced offensive through Juyo, knowledge of other forms through Niman, skill in hand to hand combat through Teras Kasi, and a defense that utilized minimization of weakness and aggressive techniques to keep his opponents at a distance to compensate for his relative lack of defensive techniques. Maul was brutal and aggressive, but as a result of his vast array of techniques he was also versatile and thus unpredictable, a two edged sword if you will (full pun intended). For these reasons I judge Darth Maul's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:17 am

Well now... time to do one on a Dark Lord who is perhaps one of the most grossly underrated duelists in the mythos... Darth Zannah.

As it is what most of her fighting style is derived from, let's take a look at her chosen weapon first. Zannah wielded a saberstaff, with blades that were slightly shorter than the standard bladelength of a lightsaber and the elongated hilt common to most saberstaffs. The shorter blades allowed for greater speed and maneuverability, while the elongated hilt allowed for an easier two handed grip. The benefits of a saberstaff itself ensured a wider area of effect, whether being used for offensive or defensive purposes.

As it is the largest and most effective aspect of her fighting style, let's look at her defense next. Darth Zannah was a master of Soresu, and her application of it played greatly off of her saberstaff. Zannah's technique was to spin her saberstaff in a defensive shield, keeping the blades spinning for momentum and granting her a maximized defensive coverage. Zannah's defense is highly effective against strength, speed, unpredictability, and precision. The maneuverability and shorter length of her blades also allows her to capably defend herself in close quarters combat.

Against duelists, Zannah's technique of spinning her blades to maintain their momentum, serves to bat away and redirect powerblows. She also maneuvers her blades in a way to which she doesn't meet the force of her opponents blows head on, but rather redirects their blows at an angle which prevents them from striking her. Wrist strength is a necessity for Zannah's fighting style, so with that built up wrist strength in mind it is even more unlikely that Zannah would be disarmed or overwhelmed by power blows, especially when you consider the two-handed grip required by the specifications of her chosen weapon.

Against opponents who are fast and unpredictable, the maximized defensive coverage formed by the constant spinning of her blades serves her well, as it allows her to defend from multiple places at once. This effectively allows her to meet fast and/or unpredictable strikes by keeping the majority of her body behind a shield at all times. Her skills defending against unpredictability can also be demonstrated by the fact that while Raskta Lsu, the best duelist in the order who was also an Echani with battle meditation augmenting her got caught off guard by ROT Bane's unpredictability, while Zannah managed to defend against the more unpredictable DOE Bane for a decent amount of time.

Against opponents who are very precise, Zannah is no stranger to precision herself. She is able to recognize great precision in the scar Set Harth dealt to a bartender, uses precision to deflect her opponent's blade at an angle, and relies mainly on precision for her offensive moves (which I will delve into later on). In addition, Zannah's maximized defensive coverage allows her to drastically reduce the number of openings she provides to precision duelists, and the control she exerts through her wrists allows for greater precision on her part.

Next we get to what is perhaps the most overlooked and underrated part of Zannah's technique, her offense. A common misconception about Zannah is that she is not capable of any effective offensive moves or maneuvers. The truth is that Zannah is not comfortable pressing an offensive, but she is still more than capable of utilizing offensive strikes and maneuvers whenever her opponent leaves an opening for her to exploit, as demonstrated against Set Harth when she casually stomped him, recognizing a dozen openings she could've easily exploited. Given that Zannah noted his precision to be remarkable and considered Harth to be a "very good" duelist, and that a member of the Jedi Council of First Knowledge considered him to be the most dangerous man in the Galaxy in the "absence" of the Sith, this speaks very well for the precision and effectiveness of Zannah's offensive maneuvers.

Her physical capabilities and applications within her fighting style are also quite remarkable. Zannah is a capable unarmed combatant, landing a few good blows on Harth, and even attempting a few physical strikes against Bane in the stone prison. She was also very agile and acrobatic, being capable of avoiding Bane's grappling in the stone prison, managing to get back onto her feat after tripping while under Bane's offensive pressure, and capably performing a triple back handspring after taking a severe beating from Bane. The maneuverability of her shorter blades also serves to bolster her here.

And last and finally, we have Zannah's tactical ingenuity. Zannah takes a lot of crap in this area from a lot of people for her tactical errors against Bane, and they forget about how tactically ingenious she can be. On Tython, Zannah was capable of playing her opponents against eachother, and was actually smart enough to not kill one of her opponents because of how he interfered with his partner's fighting style. She was also clever and cunning enough to utilize stealth when sneaking up on Lsu on Tython, and Bane in the Stone Prison. She has also, believe it or not, been fully capable of recognizing ways in which her opponents were attempting to use the environment to their advantage against her. Though she made some pretty bad tactical errors against Bane when she tried to best him through martial prowess on Doan then got tricked into stumbling over uneven ground by Bane, it is important to remember that Bane is an extremely unpredictable opponent with a talent for subterfuge that is implicitly second only to Sidious's, so the fact that Bane was able to deceive her into making a few tactical errors does not mean that she is tactically retarded.

So to sum it up, Zannah's defenses are highly effective against almost every measure of attack, her weapon perfectly bolsters her fighting style, she is capable of expertly exploiting openings with great precision, she is capable of utilizing her body to an extent in combat, and she is capable of applying tactical resourcefulness in combat. For these reasons I judge Darth Zannah's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:17 am

All right then, as it is a requested one, I will now make a post for the greatest Jedi duelist of the Ruusan Era, Raskta Lsu.

Raskta Lsu is a noted weapons master, the greatest Jedi duelist of her time, and knows multiple forms of lightsaber combat, so she almost certainly knows all seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Lsu's primary form appears to be a dual bladed application of Ataru, given her frequent use of acrobatics and her very fast attack sequences. She effectively uses her speed and acrobatics to overwhelm and dance around her opponents.

Another form prevalent in her technique appears to be Form V, as she also utilizes counterresponsive maneuvers in combat. This effectively allows her to respond to her opponents blows and immediately transition into a counterattack of her own.

I also noticed a dual bladed application of Juyo in there, when she was attacking with a lot of speed, savagery, and ferocity against Darth Bane on Tython.

As a result of her chosen weapons, Lsu was granted a great deal of precision in her moves and maneuvers.

Lsu was also familiar with her own Echani martial art, demonstrating great prowess in unarmed combat when she scissor kicked Bane's legs out from under him.

Through her race's penchant for Melee combat she was capable of amalgamating her Echani Martial art, Jar'kai, Ataru, Form V, and Juyo into her own personalized and highly effective style of offense.

For her defense, Lsu transitioned into a dual bladed variant of Soresu. Much like Darth Zannah, Lsu used high levels of speed and the greater surface area of two blades to greatly increase her own defensive coverage. This is an extremely effective form of defense, and it allowed her to neutralize Bane's offense as well as allowing her to catch his barrage of Sith lightning with her blades before they reached her companion.

Lsu, as an Echani, also had a talent for reading her opponents, and as a weapons master had a talent for recognizing the statistical viability of their weapons. This allowed her to quickly adapt and respond to her opponents moves and combat style. Through this type of analysis, she was not only capable of responding to her opponents' styles and moves, but those of her allies as well, being highly capable of using an otherwise mediocre duelist to supplement her own technique.

Through the understanding of those around her and her own broad array of combat skills, Lsu was highly effective at adapting to the circumstances and seamlessly transitioning between styles when the situation called for it.

So overall, Lsu has a highly personalized and effective offense, a well specialized defense, a natural penchant for melee combat and an understanding of her opponents that allows her to adapt to the needs of specific circumstances. For these reasons I judge Raskta Lsu's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:18 am

Well now... I find myself here making a post for Revan, a popular character who's capabilities as a duelist are less explored and more easily dismissed. However DarthAnt66 has led me to see Revan's dueling capabilities in a new light with his thread here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594652&pagenumber=1 which is where I will be drawing much of my raw information as to what forms he applies, though how they work in tandem with eachother as a part of his overall fighting style will be my own musings.

It is widely accepted that Revan's primary form is Niman. Drew stated that it is his unofficial opinion that Revan used Niman, and while it is unofficial, it does say something that a creator of a character with an intimate understanding of them believes that they would act/behave in a certain way. And when you look at the one in depth description of Revan fighting, Niman is featured very prominently. It also makes sense that a guy who focuses more on his force abilities would use Niman. With this in mind, Niman serves Revan's fighting style very well. His mastery of Niman makes him a well rounded opponent with a lot of versatility as well. Niman also serves as an excellent basis for further development given the fact that it borrows elements from the previous forms. Should Revan wish to take any of these borrowed elements further than the parameters of the style, then he can go to the style that served as source material and incorporate it into his fighting style to great effect without having to master that particular form of lightsaber combat. Niman also features the incorporation of physical strikes and chained in force attacks, as well as dual wielding training regimens, further adding to its versatility and potential for development.

Another thing to be considered early on is Revan's ability to predict the course of a battle, and this is where Ant and I disagree on. I believe that Revan's ability to predict a battle primarily comes through tactical foresight and an intimate understanding of his opponents which is then supplemented by force based precognition, while Ant believes that it is primarily force based precognition supplemented by tactical foresight and understanding. Both theories have their ups and downs for Revan's combat effectiveness. Tactical foresight of this manner would place Revan at a disadvantage against opponents who bank themselves on unpredictability and disturbing the flow and rhythm of combat, while force based precognition is a more exact thing and would not be subject to this failure. On the other hand, tactical foresight of this manner speaks for a more intimate understanding and connection with the fight and one's opponent, which speaks greater for Revan's skill, knowledge, and suggests he has the intuitiveness needed to fully capitalize on the opportunity provided by knowing your opponent's move in advance, while force based precognition is more detached from the fight itself and does not guarantee that one knows what to do with this knowledge. Basically it is the difference between knowing and understanding. Knowing your opponents moves may be a more exact thing, but understanding your opponents moves speaks for a more intimate connection with the flow of the fight itself, and I find understanding to be more impressive. The reason why I believe it is primarily tactical foresight is because Revan's ability in the art of predicting the next move is primarily compared to the Echani, and the description of their fighting style is more akin to understanding of the fight, as well as the fact that not all Echani are force sensitive. Additionally Revan is more renown for his tactical ingenuity than his precognition.

From an opening stance that Revan held in a picture, as well as the elegance and smoothness shown in his combat sequences in SWTOR, I believe that Makashi may have been a part of his fighting style. Despite the fact that Makashi is the one previous style that Niman doesn't draw from, its elements could work well as a supplement, particularly to Revan's application of it. Given that the Makashi elements are the one thing Niman lacks, it serves well to fill in that void, and add to the versatility and well roundedness Niman already possesses. Makashi's emphasis on fluidity and precision also compliment Revan's tactical foresight and intimate understanding of combat quite well. Through the fluidity of Makashi, Revan is able to more effectively move along with the flow of the fight given his intimate connection with it. Through the precision of Makashi, Revan can more effectively exploit the opportunities imparted to him by his tactical foresight.

Ataru is another form that appears to be a part of his fighting style given his usage of acrobatics. Ataru grants Revan with increased mobility, agility, and acrobatic maneuvering, which allows him to more effectively position himself in ways and spots that are useful for him or avoid enemy strikes. This works well given his understanding and intimacy with the flow of battle, as well as his tactical ingenuity. Additionally, the fast paced attack sequences of Ataru provide Revan with a viable offensive technique to utilize in a more aggressive manner when the situation calls for it. Similarly to Niman, Ataru also employs dual bladed training regimens and implementation of physical combat, furthering Revan's well roundedness and versatility and reenforcing elements of Revan's primary form, Niman.

Shien is also a part of his fighting style, as demonstrated by his frequenting of the reverse grip in combat, and the battlefield role he has been in. Given that he was on the battlefield, blast deflection was a must have, and given the aggressive tactics, and conqueror role he's placed in, Shien is more likely than Ataru for it's greater focus on offensive application of blast deflection. This is one of Shien's benefits in Revan's style, it allows him to easily take an offensive role against numerous blaster wielding opponents in a battlefield scenario. In a dueling scenario, Shien is normally less useful, however Revan's tactical foresight and intimate relationship with the flow of the battle are something that Shien would play of very nicely. Shien's counterresponsive nature would allow Revan to more effectively defend against then immediately respond to his opponents moves.

Revan has also been depicted with dual blades before, and given his mastery of Niman and implementation of Ataru, Jar'kai would not only be effective in his hands, but further bolster his own versatility.

To sum it up, Revan is not an overwhelming duelist, but he is an extremely well rounded duelist, and he knows how to apply his versatility to almost any situation to achieve combat effectiveness, and for these reasons I judge Revan's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:19 am

After making my Bane post, I noticed someone whose fighting style was very similar, yet very different, the two seemingly mirroring each other on opposite ends of the Dark/Light spectrum. I've been procrastinating on this one for a very long time, but I am done now. I present my post for Luke Skywalker, son of the Chosen One, and Grand Master of the New Jedi Order.

Luke Skywalker was primarily a practitioner of Djem So, like his father, but also had Soresu and Ataru under his belt, likely traits passed down from his two masters. Given that much of the knowledge on Lightsaber forms was lost or destroyed in the Purge, Luke was forced to personalize much of his style, as well as creating the new fighting styles for his order known as "fast style," "strong style," and "medium style." All of these elements exist in Luke's own personalized fighting style, and each hold great effect in the way that they perform in conjunction with each other.

What is perhaps the greatest element of his fighting style, is his skill in Djem So and the Strong Style he modeled after Djem So. Djem So granted Luke with an excellent foundation to further develop his style from, given the fact that it provides a powerful offense, an effective defense, and frequents counterresponsive measures in combat. This granted Luke with general versatility as well as adaptability in combat, though it was also bold and powerful. Djem So's reliance on physical strength also played off of Luke's capabilities well, as his raw power in the force allowed him to augment his physical strength to the point of parity with the likes of Darth Vader, and even being capable of overwhelming Vader. Luke also utilized compassion as a primary element of his form V mastery, using it to balance out Form V's aggressive nature. This allowed Luke to take full advantage of Form V's aggression without letting it have too adverse an effect on his focus or emotional state. This granted Luke a great deal of control and refinement of Djem So. Luke's "Strong Style" he developed for his new Jedi Order was largely based on Djem So, but also carried trace elements of Juyo, Makashi, Shii-Cho, and Ataru, furthering his versatility and adaptability, as well as allowing him greater opportunity for personalization.

Next is Luke's considerable ability in Soresu, derived from Obi-wan's teachings. With Soresu, Luke was able to combat blaster wielding opponents very effectively, as well as being able to use it to back Djem So's own latent defenses, and facilitate his survival in situations in which he is outnumbered. This also allowed Luke to fall into a defensive role when overpowered, and wait for an opening to present itself.

Also for consideration is Luke's skill in Ataru, derived from his studies at the feet of Yoda. Luke was known to utilize both his weapon and his body when practicing Ataru. This granted him an all offensive form to utilize in combat, as well as granting him bodily control, skill in unarmed combat, and skill in wielding dual blades. His skill in unarmed combat was demonstrated in his fight with Caedus, where the two brutally smacked each other down, as well as when he landed a kick on his father, and several other times. Luke has also demonstrated his proficiency in dual bladed fencing, applying it with Jacen's lightsaber and his own against the Yuuzhan Vong to great effect. In short Ataru granted Luke an all offensive technique to apply, as well as significantly boosting his adaptability and versatility in combat.

Luke being the creator of the New Jedi Order's styles is intimately familiar with them himself, so those styles would be under his belt as well. Medium Style appeared to have much in common with Niman and Shii-Cho, as well as containing trace elements of Soresu. Much like his father's style, the incorporation of these elements served to unify his style. The basic Shii-Cho elements gives him a foundation to further develop and build off of, while the well rounded jack-of-all-trade Niman elements serve to link the various elements in his style together. All in all, the Medium Style served as something of a foundation and glue for Luke's own fighting style.

The other New Jedi Order Style that Luke created was Fast Style. Fast Style was largely similar to both Ataru, and Soresu, while containing some trace elements of Shien, which leads me to believe that Luke developed it based off of Obi-wan's own fighting style. This style's incorporation of Shien and Soresu elements further bolstered Luke's own ability to deflect blasterfire to great extent. Its incorporation of Shien and Ataru elements granted Luke fast paced attack sequences, as well as bolstering his own counterresponsive abilities. Its incorporation and pairing of Soresu and Ataru elements allows Luke to more effectively wield Ataru and Soresu in conjunction with each other.

As a note about the New Jedi Order's Styles, they seem to be significantly less developed than the Seven Forms of lightsaber combat, but this allows and necessitates greater personalization of an individual's fighting style. This allowed Luke to more effectively blend the elements of his fighting style together, granted him some unpredictability in being less orthodox than the Seven Forms, and allowed Luke to easier tool his style to perfectly compliment himself, and tailor it to the needs of the moment, as well as his time period.

In some ways, Luke's fighting style bears resemblance to Darth Bane's, and this was in fact my main inspiration for making this post. They both contain largely the same roots: Djem So as their primary form, Soresu as their defensive form, and a third all offensive form (Ataru for Luke and Juyo for Bane). Both utilize those roots and techniques in very different ways however, and their differences are very reflective on the philosophies of each and their respective sides of the Force. Bane's fighting style contains a lot of extremes, reflecting the intense and extreme nature of the dark side and the Sith, while Luke's fighting style does not contain these extremes, but rather works his forms together into one, reflecting the harmonious nature of the light side and the Jedi.

To sum up Luke's fighting style, Luke was born with prodigious talent and power, in an era where much of the fighting style knowledge had been lost. This forced Luke to adapt and personalize his own fighting style, as well as clinging and expanding on every piece of knowledge he could find. This led to Luke blending several fighting style elements into one single amalgamation with perfect harmony. Basically, Luke merged several different techniques and fighting styles into one unified method and technique, and that became Luke's fighting style, and this fighting style made use of his raw power, contained a powerful offense, a staunch defense, versatility and usefulness in several situations. For these reasons I judge Luke's fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Fated Xtasy on Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:14 pm

God damn i love Luke's analyzes. The Bane one too. So,who's next on the interesting fighting style thread list? Kas'im perhaps? or maybe Sidious? lol regardless of who it is, I look forward to your next post dmb.
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Re: Interesting Fighting Styles

Post by Emperordmb on Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:02 am

Well, today is the birthday of one of my droogies, and I promised him that I would make a fighting style post for one of their favorite characters a few months ago, so I thought this would be the proper opportunity to create my interesting fighting styles post for Ahsoka Tano. Though she hasn’t had the opportunity to develop her abilities to the same caliber and extent as many of the great lightsaber masters I’ve included in my thread, Ahsoka is still an incredibly talented duelist for her age, and her chosen fighting style is a pretty damn effective one. Happy birthday King Joker, my crazy droogie, this post is my birthday present for you.

Ahsoka has a pretty wide arsenal of training and skills when it comes to martial combat, and each one of those forms and disciplines supplements each other very nicely and effectively in combat. This provides Ahsoka with a lot of options, versatility, and general knowledge of the techniques themselves that she could use herself, or recognize in her opponent’s fighting style and respond to accordingly.

Ahsoka is very much an offensive fighter, and as such, her offensive array of abilities is a bit more developed than her defensive technique. Her offensive technique is a conjunction of various forms, and it is derived from the fast paced nature of Ataru and it’s chaining in of physical strikes, the redirective parrying and counter responsive nature of the Form V variants, and the versatile and balanced nature of Niman.

Her training in Jar’kai is reinforced by the dual bladed training regimens of both Ataru, and Niman, and thus her understanding of dual bladed fencing is derived from the form specially made for dual wielding, and heavily supplemented by the dual bladed techniques, regimens, and strategies found in Ataru and Niman. Not only is her practice of Jar’kai supplemented by her skills in Ataru and Niman, but her skills and practice of Ataru and Niman are increased and amplified by her talents in dual bladed fencing. In her practice of Ataru, Ahsoka’s ability to wield two blades would increase her striking speed, and thus make her fast paced offensive even more deadly. Supporting the advantages given to her by Niman, Ahsoka’s practice in Jar’kai grants her a greater versatility and well roundedness than would normally be afforded to her by Niman’s broad generalization, especially with a shoto as one of her blades. And the usage of two blades at once would increase the effectiveness of the parrying and immediate counter response nature of Form V.

Ahsoka’s defenses appear to be less developed than her offensive ability, and in this way, I find a surprising parallel between Ahsoka and Darth Maul. Both are more reliant on their offensive technique than their defensive, so their defensive technique remains underdeveloped relatively speaking. Much like Maul, Ahsoka compensates for this by utilizing evasion, versatility, and well roundedness to facilitate her survival when pressed on the defensive. Ahsoka’s defensive strategy incorporates the agile and acrobatic moves of Ataru, tooling them for evasion as a counter to aggressive measures taken by her opponents. Her practice of Niman, which was rooted primarily in Soresu, serves to provide her with a balanced, well rounded fighting style. This provides Ahsoka a great deal of versatility, even when being driven back by her opponents offense, as well as providing her protection with it’s balanced blade work, in the way that it minimizes her weaknesses through broad coverage of them. Ahsoka also has quarterstaff training under her belt to help her understand how to counter the attacks of opponents wielding staff type weapons. This furthers the minimization of her weaknesses provided by Niman, as well as her adaptability in combat.

Ahsoka also has skills in hand to hand combat, which I believe are derived from her study of Ataru and Niman. Ataru’s emphasis on using the whole body as a weapon works well with chaining in physical strikes with her lightsaber moves, and Niman’s well roundedness and compensation for the relaxed focus on blade work integrates physical strikes at times in its training and application.

Ahsoka’s Shien reverse grip is a rather unique thing among duelists, but for a student of Anakin/Vader, it is a fairly standard trait to possess. Her reverse grip plays a part in her practice of Jar’kai, placing both of Ahsoka’s blades in an optimum position for not getting each other’s way. due to the angle of her blades. As the reverse grip is not as standard, her enemies would not be as accustomed to dealing with opponents such as her. The way in which both of Ahsoka’s blades are angled out from her body also provides her with a tighter coverage of her body, increasing the energy efficiency and practical efficiency of her defenses.

So while Ahsoka’s style is not the most developed given her relative inexperience, its components still greatly supplement each other. Her offensive technique is highly varied, taking Ataru, Shien/Djem So, Niman, and Jar’kai and using their compatible elements to supplement each other. Her offense boasts versatility, speed, quick and effective responses, and it blends all of those elements together in a way that allows them to play off of each other. Her defense, while less developed and complex, is still well thought out. For Ahsoka’s defensive technique, she favors evasion, minimizes weakness through well-roundedness, is highly adaptable, and practices two forms with a defensive root in Soresu. For these reasons I judge Ahsoka Tano’s fighting style to be unique, resourceful, and effective.

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